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	<title>Comments on: Parashat Noach 5767</title>
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	<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/</link>
	<description>A Blog by Rabbi Brant Rosen</description>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Brant Rosen</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Brant Rosen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-54</guid>
		<description>Great question, Dan.

How do I deal with this problem? I remind myself that the God of the Bible is the product of Biblical authors who lived thousands of years ago in the Ancient Near East, who had their own unique way of understanding who God was and how God behaved. But I also remind myself that the Jewish understanding of God does not begin and end with the God of the Bible.

Throughout the evolution of Jewish civilization, there has always been a spectrum of Jewish theologies. (There is, for instance, the God of the Talmud/Midrash, the God of the early Jewish mystics, the God of Medieval Jewish philosophy, the God of Lurianic Kabbalah, the God of modern Jewish rationalism, the God of post-Holocaust philosophy, etc, etc.)

Some of these theologies we will agree with, some we won&#039;t. Some we will find inspiring, some we will find repugnant. That&#039;s OK. I would suggest that the sancity of our sacred texts does not come from the literal meaning of their words, but rather the fact that they are a record of our own people&#039;s sacred struggles - a process that has been ongoing from Jewish generation to generation.

I&#039;d love to hear from others as well!

Rabbi Brant Rosen
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question, Dan.</p>
<p>How do I deal with this problem? I remind myself that the God of the Bible is the product of Biblical authors who lived thousands of years ago in the Ancient Near East, who had their own unique way of understanding who God was and how God behaved. But I also remind myself that the Jewish understanding of God does not begin and end with the God of the Bible.</p>
<p>Throughout the evolution of Jewish civilization, there has always been a spectrum of Jewish theologies. (There is, for instance, the God of the Talmud/Midrash, the God of the early Jewish mystics, the God of Medieval Jewish philosophy, the God of Lurianic Kabbalah, the God of modern Jewish rationalism, the God of post-Holocaust philosophy, etc, etc.)</p>
<p>Some of these theologies we will agree with, some we won&#8217;t. Some we will find inspiring, some we will find repugnant. That&#8217;s OK. I would suggest that the sancity of our sacred texts does not come from the literal meaning of their words, but rather the fact that they are a record of our own people&#8217;s sacred struggles &#8211; a process that has been ongoing from Jewish generation to generation.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to hear from others as well!</p>
<p>Rabbi Brant Rosen</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Solomon</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Solomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 14:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-49</guid>
		<description>There are a number of instances in the Torah where I have found the actions of God to be very distrubing.  For example in the Passover story God kills the first born of Egypt.  Now why should the children of Egypt be killed for the sins of the Phoarah?

Another exmaple is the battle of Jericho.  In this the Israelites killed every man, woman, and child in the city as well as the oxen, sheep, and asses.  Apparently this was OK by God.

In fact, in Deuteronomy God instructs the Israelis on how do deal with enemy cities in the territories which God gave the Jews.  The instruction is &quot;not to leave single soul alive&quot;.

There are many other instances like this.  I would like to ask Rabbi Rosen (or others) how they deal with these problems.

- Dan Solomon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a number of instances in the Torah where I have found the actions of God to be very distrubing.  For example in the Passover story God kills the first born of Egypt.  Now why should the children of Egypt be killed for the sins of the Phoarah?</p>
<p>Another exmaple is the battle of Jericho.  In this the Israelites killed every man, woman, and child in the city as well as the oxen, sheep, and asses.  Apparently this was OK by God.</p>
<p>In fact, in Deuteronomy God instructs the Israelis on how do deal with enemy cities in the territories which God gave the Jews.  The instruction is &#8220;not to leave single soul alive&#8221;.</p>
<p>There are many other instances like this.  I would like to ask Rabbi Rosen (or others) how they deal with these problems.</p>
<p>- Dan Solomon</p>
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		<title>By: eselinge</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>eselinge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 02:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Yup!  Lost it two years ago, and haven&#039;t been the same man since.  (Sniff!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup!  Lost it two years ago, and haven&#8217;t been the same man since.  (Sniff!)</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca Hamlin</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca Hamlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Eric--you have a favorite washcloth??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric&#8211;you have a favorite washcloth??</p>
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		<title>By: eselinge</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>eselinge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-42</guid>
		<description>When I read this story, straight from Torah, to my children some years ago, my six year old cut straight to the heart of it.  &quot;You know, Dad,&quot; he said, &quot;God is all about over-reacting.&quot;

Teaching moment.

Says I, &quot;Son, you&#039;re right.  But remember:  God is a god, not a person.  People are people, not gods.  It takes a long time for them to understand each other in this book.  God confronts Adam and Eve, and they don&#039;t &#039;fess up; they pass the blame, so he throws them out of the garden.  God says he&#039;ll destroy the earth, and Noah never argues; he just builds the ark.  It&#039;s not until Abraham that someone figures out how to argue with God, and even then, he fails.  Only Moses gets it right, and makes God back down from destroying the whole people:  &#039;Do you know what the Egyptians will say,&quot; he asks God, &#039;if you do?&#039;

From which we learn, as Jews:  when you screw up, you&#039;re supposed to admit it, and when the Powers that Be start killing, you&#039;re supposed to blunt the blow.&quot;  

Or as my son puts it now, in religious school classes, much to his classmates&#039; chagrin:  &quot;Just because God says it or does it, doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s right.&quot;

(I love the elegance, by the way, of killing both the strong and the weak to end a system where the weak are oppressed by the strong.  It&#039;s utterly inhuman, but hey, if you&#039;re an immortal being, what&#039;s such a big deal about wiping the slate clean to start over?  Maybe human death means as little to you as some two-year-old crisis, like misplacing a favorite washcloth, means to a grown up.)

Glad to have you on the case, Rav.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read this story, straight from Torah, to my children some years ago, my six year old cut straight to the heart of it.  &#8220;You know, Dad,&#8221; he said, &#8220;God is all about over-reacting.&#8221;</p>
<p>Teaching moment.</p>
<p>Says I, &#8220;Son, you&#8217;re right.  But remember:  God is a god, not a person.  People are people, not gods.  It takes a long time for them to understand each other in this book.  God confronts Adam and Eve, and they don&#8217;t &#8216;fess up; they pass the blame, so he throws them out of the garden.  God says he&#8217;ll destroy the earth, and Noah never argues; he just builds the ark.  It&#8217;s not until Abraham that someone figures out how to argue with God, and even then, he fails.  Only Moses gets it right, and makes God back down from destroying the whole people:  &#8216;Do you know what the Egyptians will say,&#8221; he asks God, &#8216;if you do?&#8217;</p>
<p>From which we learn, as Jews:  when you screw up, you&#8217;re supposed to admit it, and when the Powers that Be start killing, you&#8217;re supposed to blunt the blow.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Or as my son puts it now, in religious school classes, much to his classmates&#8217; chagrin:  &#8220;Just because God says it or does it, doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s right.&#8221;</p>
<p>(I love the elegance, by the way, of killing both the strong and the weak to end a system where the weak are oppressed by the strong.  It&#8217;s utterly inhuman, but hey, if you&#8217;re an immortal being, what&#8217;s such a big deal about wiping the slate clean to start over?  Maybe human death means as little to you as some two-year-old crisis, like misplacing a favorite washcloth, means to a grown up.)</p>
<p>Glad to have you on the case, Rav.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbi Brant Rosen</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbi Brant Rosen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Leaving aside the charged issue of capital punishment, Mike&#039;s comment assumes &quot;a system where the strong oppressed the weak&quot; and that God &quot;warned&quot; humanity through Noah&#039;s preparations. In fact neither of these things are definitively indicated by the actual Torah text. Nowhere do we read that humanity&#039;s violence was systematic - and there is no evidence at all that God intended to warn humanity of the coming disaster (as was the case, for example, with the Ninevites in the book of Jonah).

It is also critical to note that the Flood is portrayed by Torah as more than simply a &quot;death sentence&quot; for Noah&#039;s generation - it was nothing short of a wholesale reversing of the process of Creation. The earth was overrun with the primordial waters, wiping out every living thing that breathed - including animal life. It is fair to interpret God&#039;s promise at the end of the story - to never again destroy the earth in such a way - was in some measure an admission for the need for &quot;divine restraint&quot; in the future.

Thanks for weighing in, everyone!

Rabbi Brant Rosen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leaving aside the charged issue of capital punishment, Mike&#8217;s comment assumes &#8220;a system where the strong oppressed the weak&#8221; and that God &#8220;warned&#8221; humanity through Noah&#8217;s preparations. In fact neither of these things are definitively indicated by the actual Torah text. Nowhere do we read that humanity&#8217;s violence was systematic &#8211; and there is no evidence at all that God intended to warn humanity of the coming disaster (as was the case, for example, with the Ninevites in the book of Jonah).</p>
<p>It is also critical to note that the Flood is portrayed by Torah as more than simply a &#8220;death sentence&#8221; for Noah&#8217;s generation &#8211; it was nothing short of a wholesale reversing of the process of Creation. The earth was overrun with the primordial waters, wiping out every living thing that breathed &#8211; including animal life. It is fair to interpret God&#8217;s promise at the end of the story &#8211; to never again destroy the earth in such a way &#8211; was in some measure an admission for the need for &#8220;divine restraint&#8221; in the future.</p>
<p>Thanks for weighing in, everyone!</p>
<p>Rabbi Brant Rosen</p>
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		<title>By: chessdad64</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>chessdad64</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Mike:

You make it all sound pretty black and white, and I think Torah is anything but. Recall in the story of Noah itself the rainbow and G-d&#039;s covenant never to destroy all flesh again by way of a flood again (Genesis 9:14-18). That doesn&#039;t exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for bringing on the flood in the first place or being supportive of capital punishment. Also, I believe commentators have also weighed in over the years as well. Maybe some read Torah to support capital punishment and others not --- but the point is -- its not black and white. 

Brad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike:</p>
<p>You make it all sound pretty black and white, and I think Torah is anything but. Recall in the story of Noah itself the rainbow and G-d&#8217;s covenant never to destroy all flesh again by way of a flood again (Genesis 9:14-18). That doesn&#8217;t exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for bringing on the flood in the first place or being supportive of capital punishment. Also, I believe commentators have also weighed in over the years as well. Maybe some read Torah to support capital punishment and others not &#8212; but the point is &#8212; its not black and white. </p>
<p>Brad</p>
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		<title>By: mike529</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>mike529</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Oct 2006 05:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-38</guid>
		<description>G-d destroys the people of the flood&#039;s generation because they deserved it. You had a system where the strong oppressed the weak. The Torah presumes a capital punishment for certain heinous crimes. In fact people are required to make and enforce laws which prevent these sort of abuses. G-d gave them a warning through Noah&#039;s long process of preparation. Violence isn&#039;t bad unjustified violence is bad. The people of the flood deserved death for their crimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G-d destroys the people of the flood&#8217;s generation because they deserved it. You had a system where the strong oppressed the weak. The Torah presumes a capital punishment for certain heinous crimes. In fact people are required to make and enforce laws which prevent these sort of abuses. G-d gave them a warning through Noah&#8217;s long process of preparation. Violence isn&#8217;t bad unjustified violence is bad. The people of the flood deserved death for their crimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Daij</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Daij</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 20:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Does it not say in the Bible, in Genesis: &quot;G-d made man in His image?&quot; Never does it say G-d is a peace, or perfect, god at that either...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it not say in the Bible, in Genesis: &#8220;G-d made man in His image?&#8221; Never does it say G-d is a peace, or perfect, god at that either&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: srb</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>srb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shalomrav.wordpress.com/2006/10/27/parashat-noach-5767/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Thank you, that was just what I needed to hear this week. Though the story has global implications, it hits close to home for me. When you say that children wonder, &quot;Why does God respond to destruction and violence with more destruction and violence?&quot; I can hear my own children wondering, &quot;Why do Mom and Dad try to get us to stop screaming by screaming back at us?&quot; Peace on earth starts at home. The rainbow image is a good reminder for me. Shabbat shalom!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, that was just what I needed to hear this week. Though the story has global implications, it hits close to home for me. When you say that children wonder, &#8220;Why does God respond to destruction and violence with more destruction and violence?&#8221; I can hear my own children wondering, &#8220;Why do Mom and Dad try to get us to stop screaming by screaming back at us?&#8221; Peace on earth starts at home. The rainbow image is a good reminder for me. Shabbat shalom!</p>
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