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	<title>Comments on: Baskin: What the $%#@* Was it All For?</title>
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	<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2009/02/10/baskin-what-the-was-it-all-for/</link>
	<description>A Blog by Rabbi Brant Rosen</description>
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		<title>By: Ron Edwards</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2009/02/10/baskin-what-the-was-it-all-for/#comment-4327</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron Edwards]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rabbibrant.com/?p=3099#comment-4327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding Baskin&#039;s article: 

For comparison, Michael Mandel&#039;s article &quot;Self-Defense against Peace&quot;:
http://www.counterpunch.org/mandel02052009.html

I think it suffers from the common tendency to speak of nations as individuals (&quot;Israel wants this,&quot; &quot;Israel does that&quot;), but I bring it up here for a very specific purpose. In describing the nation&#039;s actions in such stark terms, it shows how policies somehow override the actual efforts of people like Baskin ... who, silly me, I thought it was their job to negotiate policy. 

To continue with that concept of the diversity of views and goals within Israel, and regarding Levy&#039;s article:

What frustrates me, or frustrates my understanding, is Meretz. I have read many books by Yehoshua, Grossman, and Oz ... and I think there is some basic flaw in my perception of their lives and work which prevents me from seeing why they have thrown their (significant) verbal support toward the assault on Gaza, as well as the Lebanon strikes in 2006. These authors questioned the retention of the Occupied Territories, and they were criticized the 1978 and 1982 invasions of Lebanon. But what is going on with them now? Why have their voices contributed so greatly to the problem Levy outlines? Can anyone help me understand that?

Best, Ron]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Baskin&#8217;s article: </p>
<p>For comparison, Michael Mandel&#8217;s article &#8220;Self-Defense against Peace&#8221;:<br />
<a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/mandel02052009.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.counterpunch.org/mandel02052009.html</a></p>
<p>I think it suffers from the common tendency to speak of nations as individuals (&#8220;Israel wants this,&#8221; &#8220;Israel does that&#8221;), but I bring it up here for a very specific purpose. In describing the nation&#8217;s actions in such stark terms, it shows how policies somehow override the actual efforts of people like Baskin &#8230; who, silly me, I thought it was their job to negotiate policy. </p>
<p>To continue with that concept of the diversity of views and goals within Israel, and regarding Levy&#8217;s article:</p>
<p>What frustrates me, or frustrates my understanding, is Meretz. I have read many books by Yehoshua, Grossman, and Oz &#8230; and I think there is some basic flaw in my perception of their lives and work which prevents me from seeing why they have thrown their (significant) verbal support toward the assault on Gaza, as well as the Lebanon strikes in 2006. These authors questioned the retention of the Occupied Territories, and they were criticized the 1978 and 1982 invasions of Lebanon. But what is going on with them now? Why have their voices contributed so greatly to the problem Levy outlines? Can anyone help me understand that?</p>
<p>Best, Ron</p>
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		<title>By: Shai Gluskin</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2009/02/10/baskin-what-the-was-it-all-for/#comment-4322</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shai Gluskin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 05:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rabbibrant.com/?p=3099#comment-4322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Brant,

Yes, read and weep.

Here is a piece by Gideon Levy, shouting to anyone who will listen about the failures of the left in Israel to protest against the group-think among Israeli leaders to continually resort to violence:

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063597.html

Shai]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Brant,</p>
<p>Yes, read and weep.</p>
<p>Here is a piece by Gideon Levy, shouting to anyone who will listen about the failures of the left in Israel to protest against the group-think among Israeli leaders to continually resort to violence:</p>
<p><a href="http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063597.html" rel="nofollow">http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1063597.html</a></p>
<p>Shai</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Bauer</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2009/02/10/baskin-what-the-was-it-all-for/#comment-4317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas Bauer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rabbibrant.com/?p=3099#comment-4317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is pretty much in line with the statements of Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said after the Davos Summit a very short time ago: 
&quot;On the night of December 23, just four days before Israel launched air offensive in Gaza, Erdogan said Israel and Syria were &quot;very close&quot; to moving to direct peace talks on the future of the Golan Heights. - Olmert&#039;s last sentence was, &#039;As soon as I get back I will consult with my colleagues and get back to you.&#039; As I (Erdogan) waited for his response,... on December 27, bombs started falling on Gaza,&quot; Erdogan told the Washington Post. Olmert paid a visit to Ankara on Dec. 23 and held a 5.5-hours-long meeting with Erdogan. &quot;
(taken from Turkish Weekly, but see also the Interview in Wash. Post on January 31st). Erdogan also mentioned it would be possible to free Shalit...

Today&#039;s elections will shift Israel still further to the right. The forced expulsion of innocent people for the simple reason that they are not of Jewish descent is becoming an option openly discussed in Israel. How can people be brought to the insight that force will only cause misery, and not peace??? 

How can i, as a non-Jew, help to bring the message across? The two sides, those who back Israel, and those who back the Palestinians, do not listen to each other. In other words: how can your blog, Rabbi, become more public to those who a priori do not see that the horror in the Holy Land (which is holy to both sides!) must be stopped?? 

&quot;throw your head back and scream to the high heavens&quot; -- you made me think  of O. Zadkin&#039;s sculpture in Rotterdam &quot;Destroyed City&quot; 
(http://www.zadkine.com/search/?&amp;name=&amp;medium[1]=on&amp;year[1950]=on&amp;sentform=true&amp;limit=1&amp;page=6 and
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Zadkine_rb_I.jpg) , 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is pretty much in line with the statements of Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said after the Davos Summit a very short time ago:<br />
&#8220;On the night of December 23, just four days before Israel launched air offensive in Gaza, Erdogan said Israel and Syria were &#8220;very close&#8221; to moving to direct peace talks on the future of the Golan Heights. &#8211; Olmert&#8217;s last sentence was, &#8216;As soon as I get back I will consult with my colleagues and get back to you.&#8217; As I (Erdogan) waited for his response,&#8230; on December 27, bombs started falling on Gaza,&#8221; Erdogan told the Washington Post. Olmert paid a visit to Ankara on Dec. 23 and held a 5.5-hours-long meeting with Erdogan. &#8221;<br />
(taken from Turkish Weekly, but see also the Interview in Wash. Post on January 31st). Erdogan also mentioned it would be possible to free Shalit&#8230;</p>
<p>Today&#8217;s elections will shift Israel still further to the right. The forced expulsion of innocent people for the simple reason that they are not of Jewish descent is becoming an option openly discussed in Israel. How can people be brought to the insight that force will only cause misery, and not peace??? </p>
<p>How can i, as a non-Jew, help to bring the message across? The two sides, those who back Israel, and those who back the Palestinians, do not listen to each other. In other words: how can your blog, Rabbi, become more public to those who a priori do not see that the horror in the Holy Land (which is holy to both sides!) must be stopped?? </p>
<p>&#8220;throw your head back and scream to the high heavens&#8221; &#8212; you made me think  of O. Zadkin&#8217;s sculpture in Rotterdam &#8220;Destroyed City&#8221;<br />
(<a href="http://www.zadkine.com/search/?&#038;name=&#038;medium1=on&#038;year1950=on&#038;sentform=true&#038;limit=1&#038;page=6" rel="nofollow">http://www.zadkine.com/search/?&#038;name=&#038;medium1=on&#038;year1950=on&#038;sentform=true&#038;limit=1&#038;page=6</a> and<br />
<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Zadkine_rb_I.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Zadkine_rb_I.jpg</a>) ,</p>
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		<title>By: morris</title>
		<link>http://rabbibrant.com/2009/02/10/baskin-what-the-was-it-all-for/#comment-4316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[morris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Par for the course ...

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Par for the course &#8230;</p>
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